Kaeren's Interview with Chemlab

K: Lets start with something basic...how did Chemlab start and how did that evolve into your first album?

 J:*ACK* Dylan was working with a very bizarre creature who is no longer with us, and was doing some soundtrack music and had approached a number of different people in the DC scene, which is where we were at the time, you know, asking "who can I get to work with me on this, I dont like writing lyrics, thats not my scene". He approached me one night at this wierd S/M club and sort of straight out of nowhere: "Hey are you Jared?" And so he laid this tape on me, sort of soundtrack-y stuff with teeth..and I don't mean like the mainstream soundtracks with compiled songs by different artists, I mean the original score. A lot of those are pretty weak. He was doing some pretty cool stuff. I think that probably eventually that will be his great strenth and major calling. He's a soundtrack artist, even more than an incredible rocker. So, he and I started pulling material together that became _Ten Ton Pressure_. I told him i was moving to New York and if he wanted to come, he was welcome to, and if he didn't want to, we'd finish working and I was going to split anyway. He decided he was coming along, and the guy we were working with at the time decided that he was destined for a mental institution. He's doing some stuff on his own right now, but I don't know what names he's working under in terms of his releases. He's approached Fifth Colvmn a couple of times...he doesnt have a whole lot of material...

K: Joe Frank?

 J: Yeah...Joe Frank...he's on _Ten Ton Pressure_ ...

K: When you listen to music, what do you hear? What impresses you with a band?

 J: Inevitably, as nature dictates, since I am a lyricist and a frontman, I gravitate immediately towards the lyrics and singing style, but the atmosphere to the song is incredibly important, just how it presents itself, its mood, its attitude. There are lots of bands that impress me. They are all not necessarily computer-driven chaosmusic bands, those don't really apply. Its a bunch of different things. And bands that impress me like that are not necessarily bands that influence our music. I can be impressed by Anthony Braxton or Cecil Taylor or Annette Coleman, anyone in that experimental jazz/blues scene, but that doesnt necessarily mean that I am going to hire some whacked-out sax player from Ann Arbor to lay down some crazy riffs for the next Chemlab album....Though you never know, you might hear some horns on the album! A lot of bands, the atmosphere is what i find very interesting, but we can go on and name bands forever and ever that wouldn't necessarily do any good or make for particularly interesting reading. It would just be a vaudeville sideshow for anybody except myself.

K: Believe it or not, plenty of people *are* interested...

 J: i am certainly glad people like the music...but just because I make music that you dig doesnt mean I am any sort of demi-god or that my opinions are any more important. Just means that we put out a record that you dig, and thats wonderful and we're glad that you dig it, because we like only about 30 seconds off of _Burnout_...

 K: Really?

 J: Yeah...I like a couple of segments from "Chemical Halo" and I like a couple of segments from "Neurozone" and the end of "Summer of Hate"--not the song itself, but the noise. The rest of the album is just bunch of sophmoric garbage as far as I am concerned. And that doesn't mean that people that like it are idiots, it just means its not to my tastes. It was cool at the time...I believe artists should be his or her worst critic, otherwise you continue to put out shit your whole life, which lots of people seem to do, very happily. Their labels support them, allowing them to continue to make complete utter ungodly fools of themsleves, trotting out this asinine inane drivel...which is probably what the second Chemlab will be like. *laughs*

 K: How damaging do you think media is to music?

 J: Hmm, damaging in what way? I mean, media is a sort of triple-edged sword...theres positive and negative aspects and then theres sort of a blurry quotient, where you're not quite sure whether its an instrument of good or evil. I mean, media in terms of MTV...you know, its good in a certain way because it provides with a way to translate our songs into a visual format. However its a negative thing because it forces people to think that way, and it really takes the emphasis off of different aspects of the art. You know, vidoes are a great thing, but its terrible to have to rely on vidoes as the final translation of your art that actualy sells it. I think a lot of bands rely on a great video, and then they get onstage and they suck a dick. I'm no great musician, Dylan is the brilliant musician as far as I'm concerned, but I feel like if you can't throw it down live, you've got nothing to say... just beacuse I am very much a live musician, its probably a by-product of the fact that I'm an old goat. Videos themselves are wonderful, inspiring, interesting things, its just frustrating that as a format, its become so overpowering that if you want to make it in the music world, you have to be able to suck MTV's dick. Thats really too bad, because it shortens people's attention spans, it keeps people from thinking about music in any other format, except this dictated concept. And then, of course, MTV is going to tell you what youre going to buy this week. People wanna be given divinity,they buy into whatever the Godhead of the Week is. People are sheep they want to follow. Whatever they are told is cool, they go and buy it. Its an evil media tool, artists not having to actually prove themselves in any other worthwile arena other than the MTV-dictated ones. Artists are appearing who havent got very much merit all except they can whip out a couple of great music videos. And if youre going to do a video, do somthing interesting, push the parameters of the format, not that necessarily either the "Filament" or "Coedine" vidoes for us have done that. I am not necessarily able to parctise what I preach, but then of course, thats the tragic comedy of being a human being. You can change everybody else except yourself...The media is wierd thing too, our general generation, both you and I, and people a little younger than you and people a little older than me, have forgotten that media means something *besides* MTV as well. It used to be, bands like the Rolling Stones would be all over the newspapers, all the time. Not just the pulpy trash papers, but the real newspapers, too.

 K: In this issue of the magazine, theres an article we're planning on including about the "holier than thou" syndrome...the old-school industrial fans versus the newer changing industrial scene...whats your opinion on that? Do you even *have* an opinion on that??

 J: Oh sure, I'm an egotistical fuck, I have an opinion on everything. *laughs* I'm an opinionated old bastard, but its your opinions that define you...so being opinionated isnt such a bad thing. Well, I dont think that what Trent Reznor is making is industrial music, though I do think that _The Downward Spiral_ in terms of its sonic abrasion, and some of its moments of true noise intensity are much closer to the white noise definitions of industrial music, ala SPK, NON, and Whitehouse, than a lot of other bands. He's done a really interesting mix between pop and sonic extremity. The problem is, you have all these different kinds of music that are falling under this heading that doesnt really mean anything anymore. We get trapped into "is this industrial? is this *real* industrial?", and as far as I am concerned, INDUSTRIAL MUSIC, in capital letters, per se, pretty much was dead after Throbbing Gristle broke up, after Cabaret Voltaire started doing ambient techno music...the original primogenitures of the scene have moved on and are doing different things, interesting and boring--I'm not going to pass judgement here, or name names, I just dont dig that...whatever you dig is whatever you dig. If you're into the old original industrial scene, and you don't like Nine Inch Nails, cool, great. Whatever we want to call it is whatever we want to call it. For me, since, I am a lyricist and a writer, I'm into phraseology and words in general, so I have a whole new category built up, which I call chaosmusic, which is pretty much everything post-Throbbing Gristle's breakup. That helps make a seperation between old-school industrial, and...and...whatever we decide to call it now. All this infighting to me is pointless. So you don't like early SPK? You don't like Cabaret Voltaire, but you like Front Line Assembly, so what?

 K: People have to have something to bitch about, I guess...

 J: Yeah, I guess so, but it sure would make me happier if people were really interested in bitching about stuff, and if you have to keep it on a superficial level, like bitching about music, then don't cut down a scene that is trying to get itself together and get exposure and be taken seriuosly. Go cut down bands like the Spin Doctors and Blind Melon! Why should one band thats doing an 80's computer retro type of thing be fighting a band who's doing some old 70's "real" industrial, and be fighting with a band thats sort of a NIN ripoff? All these poeple who are working with the computer and trying to push the parameters of computer-driven music should have a certain amount of respect for eachother at *least* as technicians. For chrissake, people should be fighting about the fact that the fourth amendment is about to get wasted--illegal search and seizure by the police is about to become a reality again. I mean, people shouldn't watse their time fighting about whether Trent Reznor is cool, and be concerned with the fact that we're now storing nuclear waste above ground in concrete containers! Thats what we should be concerned about, NOT whether FLA's new album is a sellout...give me a break! You got to fucking cut somebody down, go and cut down Billy Idol for putting out a "cyberpunk" album, for chrissake. Go ruin that guy, don't fucking slag on Sister Machine Gun.

 K: You touched on some of the other things I wanted to talk to you about here....what do you have to say about some of the people that say that music generated through a computer isn't *real* music?

 J: Anyone that thinks that if youre creating music using computers and samplers isn't real music, then you should build yourself a time machine and go back and live in Vienna in the 1600's, because you're not going to be happy anywhere else. *Thats's* not real music, but what the Grateful Dead do is? I mean, come on, John Cage in the 1950's did numerous performances and experimentations and gave lectured on the whole idea of expanding the spectrum by which we define what music is. Who is to say "Thats not music!"? Well, its not music to you...but you like Blind Melon,and as far as I'm concerned, thats not music, thats just an incredible annoyance. Just a bunch of guys trying to make a bunch of money by prostituting themselves to some ridiculos ideal of what they think music really is...thats not music, thats just a bunch of jerking off. But then, who am I to say what music is or isnt? Nobody... Its a meaningless argument. So you don't like it, so don't listen to it! Its like people bitching on IRC, what are you doing? Just wasting bandwith...go away! If you dont like it, go listen to the Breeders. Look at _The Downward Spiral_, that album pushes the envelope on how we define what a pop song is. In fact, more than _TDS_, look at _Pretty Hate Machine_. That album is a bunch of Beatle's pop hooks, rubbed in the dirt. Great, and it works, and I think its beautiful. If other people don't think its music, I don't give a fuck. If you dont like it, change the channel. Free Will, people. I mean, i think Elvis Presley was garbage! I never liked anything he ever did, his death was the most interesting part of his career! But I am sure there a 50 million Elvis fans who would say "Oh! Chemlab! Thats not music!" If you don't like it, theres an On/Off switch on almost everything...if you dont like it, get out if the Cyberden, If you dont like it, get off of r.m.i, get off IRC, go away, cause we DIG it, and we're the future, and if you don;t cant deal with that FUCK OFF. Electricity is OUR friend, and ever since it was discovered, the inevitable, inexorable journey towards the incorporation of the computer at the very base of the DNA column of the human being is where we been heading...The computer is here to stay. The poeple who make music with computers are the TRUE punk rockers of the world. And in 20, 40, 50 years in the future, they will not be vilified...they will be crowned as kings. We're the new shit. And we're doing it for ourselves, THATS punk rock, not Green Day, those fucking puppeteers... We're the real thing, fuck off. If you don't like it, thats okay, I probably don't like you either.

 K: *laugh* Well, something else that you started to talk about was...

 J: Yeah, i do sort of start to talk about ten things at once, dont I?

 K: Oh, thats wonderful, then I have perfect segues, right? What I was going to ask you about was the rumors a little while back, before the tour with KMFDM, that you guys and Sister Machine Gun didn't get along at all.... Is there any truth to that, or was that just kind of a...

 J: Oh, there was definitely a lot of truth to that... There were people in the SMG camp who I think were agitating against us, and certainly there were people over at TVT who have agitated us and continue to agitate against us, but I really couldn't care less because as far as I am concerned, TVT is about as dickless and powerless as you can get, so they can fuck off and die. I make a concerted effort to turn bands away from TVT every chance that I get, bands that are looking for labels...and not just because I want to sign them myself, just because I am concerned with the band's welfare. TVT is not good health. But yeah, the situation with Sister Machine Gun, we had some differences of opinion, and we worked them all out. Certainly we went into the KMFDM tour holding on to all those differences of opinion but the people in the SMG camp and the people in the Chemlab camp realized that when you are on tour, as in most scenarios, you have to function as a professional. So, you put all that stuff aside, and you rock. We had a great time, and came out of the tour as friends. Once again, the people in the scene should be supporting eachother, not cutting eachother down. We don't need to fuck eachother up.

 K: What do you think about touring and playing music live, is that something you dig?

 J: Love it. I really enjoy playing live a lot. Dylan is less enamored of it than I am, but he's coming around.

 K: Well, it really looked like you were a *performer* the times I've seen you. It was hard to keep my eyes off you...

 J: I feel like performing live is a real good chance for you to be able to translate what you've done in the studio, you know, the ideas you have in your head, you can translate them into the live context. Bring them to people and let the song happen in new and different ways that were perhaps not concieved of A) by you, and B) by the listening public.

 K: And not only that, but I was impressed by the fact that you're right out there, after the show, talking to people. I can't even tell you how many times I've seen a band like, maybe Nine Inch Nails, I've only met him like twice...You know, he's forced into scurrying from backstage straight onto his bus, and doesnt get to talk to anybody...

 J: Which is too bad. He's got great things to say, he's an intelligent guy, he's very compassionate...You know, its hard for him too, because, of course, he just gets swamped by people. If people would remember that people like Trent Reznor are just human beings, it would make life for him on the road and in public much easier. I have the luxury of being nobody right now, so after my shows, i can get offstage and wander through the audience and talk with people and hang out with them, and have a good time, whereas if he does that now, he just gets mauled! Which I think is terrible, what are you mauling the guy for? What are you gonna get out of him by mauling him? He's not gonna have your child, so back off.

 K: Are you happy where you are, or would you like more than that?

 J: Oh, I'm, um....you know...

 K: Thats kind of a loaded question, isn't it? *laughs*

 J: Oh, sure it is...but I want to be Jared, King of the Globe! There's nothing wrong with making money from what you do. I mean, this is my job, and hopefully I'm percieved, and Dylan too, as doing it well. I love the music, I love making music and i want to make money off of it. I don't want to have to work at a sandwich counter. I dig working at Fifth Colvmn, but I would prefer to be in more of a consulting position, rather than the general maganger, just because I want to make money from my art. I don't think that that invalidates you. Poverty, to me, is not the final validator of whether your art is worthwhile. I gotta be able to go to sleep at night and be able to look myself in the mirror when I wake up. I am happy with where we are, but I certainly would like greater exposure. As long as you don't sell yourself out, you know, cop some fucking lame attitude, as long as you continue to make great music...pay the man! I want to be able to continue to blow my own mind, and blow other people's mind at the same time. Course, if you take that money and you start to bastardize your art, because you think "Oh, i better do this, cause the audience will dig it and buy my records. I better do *this* so the record company will continue to pay for my helicopter..." Shit. Thats when youre a putz. Thats when youre a tool. You deserve to die!

 K: Along those lines, do you guys ever get any fucked-up fan mail?

 J: Yeah. I've been writing to this one guy in Florida, this raving Christian, and just thinks we're on this incredible path to hell, and he wants to exorcise the demons from us. Thats interesting. But, like I said, we're lucky, we're not really known, we're not that big, so, we haven't got a lot of psychos yet...

 K: That guy isn't a psycho?

 J: Who knows, we'll see...I'll meet him someday and hopefully he won't try and stab me with his crucifix or something.

 K:Getting back to your music...is there anybody you'd like to see remix your own work?

 J: Hmmmm. Peter Gabriel. Flood. We've talked with Flood a couple of times...Maybe we'll have enough money for him to do some work on the next album, I dont know...

 K: How did the "sutures" in between the songs on your albums come about...and are there any longer versions of those floating around? J: Oh, wow, this tastes good...

 K: What?

 J: Its chicken in a white wine and cream sauce, with brussel sprouts and creamed asparagus...

 K: Not only is he a rock star, he's a gourmet chef too...

 J: Bah...my old lady is the real cook, I just cop riffs off of her. Where were we?

 K: The sutures...

 J: Thats right. The sutures are...the actual definition of a suture is that its a stich, it holds two pieces of flesh together. It segues two songs together. The ones from _Ten Ton Pressure_ were just sort of random, ragged, directionless ideas that we were having fun with, and the ones on _Burnout_ were all taken from _TTP_. What we did was, I took a vinyl copy of _Ten Ton_ and literally scratched it--I'm sure you can tell, and we then we ran all of that, that recording, about 5 minutes worth of scratching the living shit out of the fucking vinyl, and we ran *that* through a couple of different effects processors, ultraharmonizer, primarily...Then we just clipped different bits and pieces and put those between the songs. So, for the next album, I don't know what the sutures are going to be. They're places that we get to experiment with different sonics.

 K: Actually, those are my favorite parts...its a real unique idea...

 J: Thanks. The next album, the stutres *will* all have sort of a unifying theme. Not quite sure, what they are gonna be about yet. We're also really interested in releasing an album of all sutures. Like 10 second segments, like 100 of them. I like that idea a lot, and you will certainly continue to see them in future Chemlab albums...

 K: Something for us to look forward to...

 J: Yeah, I dont know when that will be, but I would really like to do that...we get some real *crazy* noisy sound segments, and we're not going to be able to put them all on the next album, so thats really the only way to get all of them out. And I think it would just be so much fun, totsally unbridled sonic experimentation...

 K: Something a little personal...do you have any regrets? I mean, sure, everyone's got some, but have you ever gone "Damn, that was a BIG mistake..."

 J: I have taken too much money up front from a label, we've got too much money we have to pay back now. So, when I'm dealing with bands that I am signing to Fifth Colvmn, I make a real point of telling them "Look, keep your advances to a minimum, take as little money from us up front as possible. You don't need it...well, if you *do* need it, take it..." We have spent more money than necessary and we've dug ourselves a nice 6-figured hole.But, at that time, I didn't have that much experience in that end of the record industry. I've been in 35 or so different bands in the last 15 years and none if them have ever really taken off, so Chemlab was a big thing for me... Course, you can regret all you want to, and its not gonna change a fucking thing. Tough shit for you.

 K: Just the opposite of that, what are you most proud of right now, as far as *any*thing goes...

 J: Proud of the fact that we've been able to create something that satisfies us and intrigues other people. Its allowed us to get our music out and allowed us to tour and allowed us to experience different places and people. I have always wanted to travel as much as possible...I have done a lot of it on my own being a homeless hobo, bumming around the world, which was great cause then I could do it without any money too. I find people really interesting...they are sick and twisted and depraved. Thats really stimulating, the underbelly of humanity. Its like a great big anthropology experiment. I dont know, i guess i am just proud of the fact that I am able to do something that other people can become a part of. I dont know if I am proud of very much...I mean, I am *glad* that I am in a position right now where I can help other bands. I can use the experience that I have to pass that infomation along. Computer-driven chaos bands need as much of a community as we can get our hands on. When I can share my informantion, I am repayed with violent twisted vidoes and photographs of people with their large intestines pierced...Course, if i mess up...

 K: You're only human....

 J: Yeah...just because you dig the lyrics to "Chemical Halo" sure doesn't make me Zeus. I am just a fucked up guy like everybody else. People need to remember that I took a big shit today, I got a zit on my chin and a zit on my cheek...I *am* human, just like you, it just so happens, I can translate my visions from my dreams and nightmares onto a palatte that is compehensible to a wide number of people. Its just a temporary grasp of a gift. We're fragile... You're online right now?

 K: Well, someone else is right now...but I usually am. I was really looking forward to talking with you, because I understand you know a lot about the net...maybe you know where I am coming from...this zine came together through the net...

 J: And then you did an interview with me and you're thinking "This guy is a big stuck up dick!!"

 K: *laughs* Well, you have strong opinions on everything, but if you must know, I happen to agree with most all of it...This has been interesting, I've had interviews that were *so* boring...

 J: Well, a lot of interviewers are boring.

 K: Uh oh...

 J: A lot of the questions you get are tediuos and predictable. You're not inspired to keep going, but here we've been on the phone for what, an hour?

 K: I hadn't noticed...

 J: This, to me, is refreshing. Most of the time is "How did you meet? Why are you called Chemlab? What are your favorite bands? Whos youre influences?" Give me a fucking break. I wanna tell those guys to ask something interesting please!

 K: Yeah, but its hard sometimes to think of thigs you haven't been asked before! And besides that, there are people out there that *do* want to know that stuff, even if its boring to you and they probably could go read it somewhere else anyway...

 J: Oh sure, sure...

 K: Well, what place do you think the world will be in 50 years, do you think it will be pretty dismal, or getting better?

 J: I am not sure... We're moving so quickly right now. Technology is developing so quickly, and in these radically mutated different forms. Stuff we would have never even concieved of 3, 4 years ago. Its real hard to say where we'll be in 50 years. Pretty much anything you say is going to be wrong, because who would have thought 10 years ago that we would have had this masive computer culture that we have now, where Ragu Pizza Sauce has got a Web page, for chrissake!

 K: I guess what I was aiming at was whether you were optimistic, or not...

 J: I generally like to think that the future is going to be pretty bladerunner-y bleak, and I think thats tremendous. I think thats wonderful, bacuase it means massive decimation of vast amounts of humanity, and thats good, because there are too many of us, and too many of us who are just followers and have no interesting ideas and have no posituve input whatsoever. Those people should all get wasted. I can't pick who they are cause that makes me a fascistic nazi figure. But, if we have a handful of different retroviruses that just waste em, then great, maybe I'm going to go to! That would certainly clean the palate a lot. I bet in the next decade, we'll see a lot of heavy-duty computer crimes being perpetrated that will change a lot of the way that we deal with privacy and personal rights, and some of that concerns me, because certainly the US government has a tremendous propensity for wanting to invade and control, which is one of the resons the 4th amendment is going to go down. The whole idea that the constitution is gonna be raped so flagrantly just blows my mind. And, that people are still fighting about if Nine Inch Nails are cool...jesus christ people. Any day now, the cops are going to be able to come into your house, plant cocaine in your dresser drawer and be able to throw you in jail for 10 years!

 K: Thats really fucking sad....

 J: ...for the fact that you have a green mohawk, or you've got a fucking microchip port behind your ear...The future is going to be an interesting place, I'm sad I'm not goint to see all of it. It wont be like 2001, it'll be a lot closer to things like Neuromancer.

 K: Mad Max...

 J: Oh yeah. Maybe in the next 10 or 15. Fifth Colvmn is releasing this album by this band Black Rain, which is a lot of the original soundtracks to the film "Johnny Mnemonic" also, they did a lot of soundtrack for the audio-book for "Neuromancer"...

 K: Let's see here, I might have exhausted my list here, believe it or not...

 J: Thats okay, dinner's coming up here...

 K: Did I interrupt your dinner?

 J: No no no, we're just juggling cooking and talking on the phone.

 K: Juggling what?

 J: Juggling cooking and talking on the phone...

 K: Oh, I thought you said juggling *cocaine*...

 J: No, I smoked that already...you ever smoke rock?

 K: Yeah, actually... J: Crack or just freebasing? Interesting high, man. Sort of a *whoosh* "Oh man, I am really high, this is really great!" *whoosh* "Oh man..."

 K: Hurts like a motherfucker coming down...

 J: While you're up its great, isnt it? You know, if you do a bag of dope, then you can go up and down, and the downs don't hit you so hard, and the ups are really killer. You just gotta mix and match...but promise you won't River Phoenix-out on me.

 K: *laugh* Promise. Anything else you wanna say to me?

 J: Um, nope. Last words I don't really believe in, if you wanna get some last words out of me, you're going to have to do some prompting. But, you've been doing PLENTY of prompting tonite.

 K: Hope I didn't go anywhere I wasn't supposed to...

 J: Aww, I would have told you. I'm too old to trot around topics I don't like. If I don't want to answer something, I'm not going to. Its only an interview, its not like...

 K: The Spanish Inquisition...

 J: The Spanish Inquisution. Not like I *have* to answer anything. You will find me quite amenable as long as i think the questions are interesting.

 K: Well, I am glad you thought so. Smart guy, you are...

 J: Certainly. Good interview, great questions...

 *personal stuff thats irrelevant to you anyhow*:)

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